An Interview with Curt
Kobylarz-Schmidt
by Rick Grimes
Reprinted from Issue 20 of The Stone
Curt is the Director of
Research for the Philosophers of Nature LABORA Project (Laboratory Research
& Application). Curt’s vast experience in laboratory Alchemy along with
his traditional background in Electrical Engineering, Chemistry, and Quantum
Physics makes him a most unique individual. I can personally verify that, as I’ve
known Curt for over twenty years; we studied together with Frater Albertus at
PRS. For those of you attending the upcoming seminar in July 1997 in Colorado
Springs, Curt will make a positive impact not soon forgotten. I interviewed Curt
on April 10, 1997.
RG: Curt, I know that you are a rather multi-dimensional being, and I think that
our readers may not realize the extent of your varied interests and background.
Please tell us a little about yourself.
CKS: Well, my life has had turns of event that sort of led me in different
directions that I never planned. I was born and raised into the Roman Catholic
faith, and was fortunate to be exposed to the Church Mass and Rituals when they
were all in Latin, and more likened to Ceremonial Magic and more mystical in
nature than today. I was an altar boy, went to a Catholic Grade and High School
and had to learn Latin which is a good root language. At thirteen I started
formal piano lessons and also began playing a pump reed organ at my elementary
Catholic school. I only mention this first to let people know where I am coming
from; that the balance of Arts (music) and Science were important in my life as
they are today. In my opinion, one without the other leads to an unbalanced
personality; you can't be just right- or left-brain dominant.
At eleven my interests expanded to include science, photography, and
electronics. By the age of thirteen I started questioning all I had been taught
when I saw that my parents (and others) would simply do as they were taught
without questioning anything. I would sit in the woods and try to determine the
'rightness' or 'wrongness' of what I had been taught. Later on, I discovered
this type of prolonged thinking was called 'meditation'.
In high school a few of the girls were into Astrology but I was so much into
science that I didn't see it as being scientific or logical enough to value
study. I have to laugh at myself now, because at my 20th year class reunion I
explained the scientific proof of Astrology to these same women.
Around the age of 19 I began to study the writings of T. Lobsang Rampa. I
noticed that many of the Astral Projection experiences he described were similar
to psychedelic experiences I had previously. This led me to a man who introduced
me to Astrology and the basics of chart construction and interpretation.
From there I began the study of Magic, The Golden Dawn, Franz Bardon, Aleister
Crowley, Dion Fortune, Israel Regardie, W.E. Butler, and Gareth Knight, which
led me to the study of the Qabala. Via correspondence I had with Israel Regardie
I discovered practical Alchemy. Following his recommendation I contacted Frater
Albertus at the then Paracelsus Research Society, obtained his book and other
publications on Alchemy, and started doing the lab work at home. It took two
years to finish my degree in Electrical Engineering before I could attend the
PRS classes.
By the time I attended the PRS Prima Class, I had already prepared plant
tinctures, and started on a plant stone. Interestingly, Frater came to me in a
dream a week before I attended the first class. The new students never saw him
until he arrived at 8:00 AM for the very first class session, and I was shocked
to see the man from my dream; I had already met him and didn't know it.
When I returned from Prima class (with a ton of Alchemical texts he allowed the
students to remove and Xerox at the local University, including the works of
Basil Valentine), I was working in the lab day and night (when I wasn't working
my day job as an engineer). At the PRS I made close friendships with experienced
students who would answer my questions, which helped me advance faster (Frater's
once-a-year class wasn't enough for me).
Later that summer, while visiting a fellow Prima student in Michigan, I met Carl
Stahl of Bay City, Michigan - an excellent Alchemist and one of the worlds top
Sidereal Astrologers. An author of self-published books and a monthly
newsletter, Carl also generated the earliest Ephemeris of the planet Vulcan. I
called Carl about every other week filling notebooks with information I haven't
yet tried. Carl could get the oils of all the metals effortlessly, and was the
only person who had successfully made the Firestone from Antimony. He transmuted
a silver coin to gold over a Bunsen Burner in front of me and a few others one
summer. He also introduced me to reproducing any Alchemical/Spagyric substance
using a rain water Archeus blend and simple digestion. One summer he had
extracted over 18 gallons of an extract from one piece of licorice root weighing
around an ounce (28 grams or so) and using a Soxhlet extractor. Carl told me the
extraction was carried on for around 6 months, but eventually he got tired of
having his equipment tied up. He said that apparently it could go on forever. I
still have a pound of his extract of licorice, a black, sweet resinous substance
when dried.
Thanks to my wonderful friends and my lab efforts, Frater Albertus allowed me to
go to two classes each year instead of just one. So, over time, I also met many
other students in those classes. In 1971 while in Santa Monica I re-met Bill Van
Doren, who had been in my PRS Prima class, and he informed me that translated
lessons from the French Philosophers of Nature were available. I inquired, and
the rest is history.
Actually, about 5 years ago after studying with Native Americans, attending
sweat lodges, vision quests, a Sundance, and numerous other rituals, and 2 years
with a Qi-Gong Master, who spoke only Mandarin Chinese, something suddenly
awakened and it all made sense to me. I guess if you shake someone hard enough
and long enough, something will happen. I'm just one of those late bloomers.
RG: In metallic alchemy, what, in general, are the main paths as you see them?
CKS: By metallic alchemy I believe you refer more specifically to the the Great
Work, the production of the metallic equivalent of the plant stone. Well, so far
we know that there is a so-called Dry Way and a Wet Way.
This is the Ying / Yang, Female /Male, Negative/Positive way things polarize in
this physical 3-D manifestation. All of Alchemy (and Chemistry) is really based
on this principle. In Chemistry it is called "Equilibrium". The
Alchemical picture is more complex, since multiple energy sources are considered
other than just the physical (Alchemy was first, before Chemistry; the problem
with Chemistry is mainly with Academia - if you can’t measure it with current
technology - then it doesn’t exist; tomorrow it may if a new gadget/analytical
tool appears). Anyway, everything is based on the equilibrium or ying/yang of
Water ==> H2O ==> H-O-H ==> (H+) (OH-). The (H+) is the acid/Wet way,
and the (OH-) is the alkali/Dry way. Note that both ways will use liquids at
some point - the Wet/Dry referring to the method used in the end when the
substances are mixed to get a final result - the Wet way employing liquids
(including oils), and the Dry way utilizing all dry powders/salt.
An example of a Wet way would be the way
of the acetates (using acetic acid),
and an example of the Dry way would be the method I showed at the 1996 seminar
using an ore (Realgar) and a fixed alkali salt I theoretically called Potassium
Deuteroxide (KOD), which I have recently discovered does really exist in the
books (in European sources).
RG: I know that you are an officer of a dowsing association. Can you tell us
something about your involvement, and how you have used dowsing in Alchemy and
in other fields?
CKS: I have been the president of the Orange County, CA Chapter of the American
Society of Dowsers (ASD) with main headquarters in Vermont. It’s kind of a
position I ‘fell’ into (I never ask for these things), but it turned out to
be very valuable for me. My favorite dowsing device is the pendulum, and then
the (Cameron) Aurameter. I use dowsing to determine things such as times to
start, ratios of substances to mix, proper pH’s, heating temperatures and
durations, etc. I find it especially useful to determine what tinctures to use
for a particular purpose, how much, how frequently to take, and how long to use
the substance in question. I plan on teaching Dowsing basics at the upcoming
seminar in Colorado Springs (1997), as Jean
Dubuis has mentioned the use of
Dowsing occasionally as a means of tapping your higher sources. Dowsing, like
all other esoteric training methods, are simply crutches that we use for a while
and then eliminate. In dowsing, we try to reach the state of what is called
"deviceless" dowsing, which is the step next to a increased awareness
or intuition. I have noticed that as I used the pendulum more and more, I
noticed a certain ‘feeling’ before the pendulum started to move, and so
eventually all I had to do was ask the question and observe the ‘feeling’,
and thus not even need the pendulum. Everything is merely a ‘crutch’ we use
until we are ‘healed’, and then we discard the ‘crutch’ (or training
wheels).
RG: Do you think the chasm between alchemy and traditional science will be
reconciled?
CKS: Of course! It's a natural process of evolution, and the fact that
everything really comes from 'inner planes' or 'inner dimensions', meaning that
we are really just receivers of inner thoughts and make them manifest in
physical matter. All of science is advancing so fast, especially in the realms
of Chemistry and especially Physics, that a lot of the old theories are being
publicly and openly blown apart and admitted as wrong (the scientists of the
newer generation are openly honest). A good low-cost magazine to watch for these
changes is Scientific American in the United States. The publication Nature is
really at the top of the list, but is very expensive, and all the exciting
releases are republished in the above mentioned and a lot of other publications.
I kind of see my purpose here as attempting to do that very thing, since I am
involved in the sciences and Alchemy, and it was my going back to school for
Analytical Chemistry that opened a bunch of doors in Alchemy, especially Quantum
Physical Chemistry.
RG: How does traditional chemistry aid you in your alchemical research?
CKS: As mentioned above, Analytical Chemistry and Physical Chemistry (the
Physics branch of Chemistry). I have little use for Organic Chemistry,
especially in the synthesis of compounds, as they are not natural and don't
follow the ways of nature for the most part. But there is always good in
anything, and the structure of organic compounds is very valuable, and how they
react with other things. Some of the older synthesis methods are valuable,
especially the condensation methods of alcohols and ketones. If you know the
Alchemical methods, and have worked on them for a while like I have, and then go
back to studying Chemistry as I did, you will recognize things you never would
have recognized the first time you studied it, as it was all too new to you.
It's like a good book that you read and re-read, and every time you re-read it,
you discover new things, new worlds that were there all the time that you didn't
recognize.
Again, it all boils down to one thing, awareness. The more aware we are, the
more we discover that all the mysteries of life are and always have been right
in front of us - all around us; we just weren't aware of them.
The old Chemistry books are very valuable, like the reprint of the 1872
Wagner's Chemical Technology by Lindsay Publications, and that 1771
Encyclopedia Britannica Chemistry section that Carl Stahl retyped and
indexed. These are the bridges between old Alchemy and Modern Chemistry, just
before they were beginning to change over to modern (synthetic) methods. Natural
products and methods were still in use, and they actually show a lot of the
Alchemical methods in clearer ways than some of the old Alchemical masters and
writers described them. I have gotten a lot of clues from those two books.
RG: Has traditional scientific study hindered you?
CKS: There has really been no hindrance, as I merely ignore what I don't need or
find of use. It's just a matter of discrimination. Since Alchemy is in every
aspect of our lives, there is no branch of study on this planet where we can't
find some aspect of Alchemy operating and then learn something from it. Even
basket knitting or weaving shows the aspects of 'pattern' and 'symmetry' -
aspects that are always operating in Alchemy and Life (two names for the same
thing). Truth has a way of manifesting in everything, no matter how hard man
tries to hide or confuse it; with awareness and discrimination we can find the
truth anywhere.
RG: What is the one crucial question you seek to answer through alchemy?
CKS: That's a tough one, as I don't see any one question as especially crucial.
The only "one" thing I am seeing more of, is the way the 'old ones'
described the "Alchemical / Philosophical Mercury" as 'one substance'
that becomes 'the many' by fixation and differentiation, or as we may see it, as
energy becoming denser and assuming various forms or energy patterns. Our
universe/physical plane of manifestation is basically an electronic one, as all
matter is composed of atoms, which in turn is composed of charged (electrical)
particles. Particles can become waves and vice versa, and so everything comes
and goes out of " light" or photons. The Alchemical Mercury is the
only thing I see "one" of; kind of like the statement that there are
many paths but they all lead to the "one" source.
RG: Besides dowsing, what other topics do you plan to cover in Colorado?
CKS: Dowsing is one of the things I plan on teaching as a tool that I feel
obligated to teach, as another possible lost art that I feel is a very easy to
learn method which is very useful for getting in touch with one aspect of your
inner self, plus it's just so darned useful for anything one has a question for
(and we all should have plenty of those).
I plan on covering and emphasizing what I would call "Practical Alchemy In
Daily Life" - that is, how to recognize the Alchemy going on all around us,
as in our food preparation, identifying the essentials and being careful not to
lose or destroy them - but digest them for maximum physical energy.
I will also have additional information on the dry way I showed at the last
seminar, some interesting work and discoveries with the Vinegar of Antimony,
some work with nitre and how to make a living nitre (potassium nitrate) from
Chile saltpeter (sodium nitrate). The Chile saltpeter (NaNO3) is easily
obtainable in a raw, natural form, but the potassium salt is almost impossible
to obtain in a raw natural form. This nitre, like the 'vitriols' of metals,
comes forth in beautiful long needles (all the 'vitriols' of metals that I have
made always come out in a long, beautiful, needle-like crystalline form). Also,
I believe this to be a method for the very short dry way that is only very
occasionally mentioned, but the method I believe all the great masters used,
especially when they traveled, as few materials are needed. I don't know how far
I will progress with this method myself, as my business keeps me extremely busy
now, and that comes first.
Speaking of work, I will have a particularly interesting showing of an
Alchemically produced combination of Colloidal Platinum, Gold, and Silver (which
I just recently found out is called "electrum"), and which appears to
have what I sense as "etheric superconducting" properties. As usual, I
will bring a quantity for all to try and sample. The whole idea IS to raise all
our vibrations, and what better way could there be than to do so in a group,
with that synergistic effect of a beautiful group mind resonating together for
the purpose of speeding up the evolution of mankind (as if it isn't moving fast
enough already!).
I also would like to show an easy method for the production of the Spirit of Sea
Salt, that I find so useful, and the preparation of a Living Butter of Antimony
that sublimates 100 degrees Fahrenheit lower than the chemically produced one
(and published in tables), and it sublimates in beautiful crystals that reflect
light into a myriad of prismatic spectral light. One way to identify an
Alchemical or living product is by its beauty; all the substances I have
personally produced (and even those in the classes I teach) are physically
beautiful and vibrant in form and color.
RG: Will the beginner in alchemy find your presentation too advanced?
CKS: As usual, I present the material on multi-levels, from the technically
correct (for the scientists), to the simplest of explanations, trying to link
them all together. Any time I use an apparently complicated scientific term, I
explain it and show its derivation as a simple concept, constantly trying to
blow away the academic facade of elitism. I speak the language of the scientist
so our Art will come out of the darkness of hocus-pocus secret mysticism and
strange brews, so that even though a particular student may not understand all
the technicalities immediately, it will be there (on the video tapes) for future
viewing and understanding - plus - as our work is mentioned to someone in the
sciences, they can view the tapes and see what they are familiar with - spectra
of compounds, or chemical equations. This is what I hope to be the beginning of
the proof of the validity of our Art.
The Great Ones before us only used the terms and descriptions that were
available to them at the time. My only problem is that I tend to talk fast, as I
get too excited and have a hard time containing that energy, and in my desire to
share and give all that I can, my "cup runneth over" at times. I don't
believe in withholding information - there's just too much out there to yet
receive and give out, an infinite amount in fact. No need to hold out on
infinity. As an aside, I see Jean
Dubuis as the PON "infinity
contactee", working out of the Sphere of Binah - which is in the Sphere of
the Unmanifest, unknowable, and unspeakable - it can only be experienced - so as
we are all one group soul, we all have access to his experiences - since we are
all ONE. I for one, have learned, and have been lead down paths I never
imagined, by a single word, or idea he presented to us. It only takes a small
key to open a large lock, which in turn opens a door to inestimable glittering
jewels of beauty and knowledge.
RG: What are some of the pitfalls you would instruct the beginner in metallic
work to avoid?
CKS: That's a difficult one to answer, as there are so many paths in the
metallic work. One thing I do strongly suggest that will not only save anyone a
great deal of lost time, not to mention minimizing the inherent dangers from
accidental poisoning, burns, inhalation of fumes, etc., which is inherent in
working with metals, is to do some homework before you work on a particular
metal. Study all the physical and chemical properties of the metal and ores and
look at the possible combinations. The easiest way is to get a copy of the Merck
Index (an old used one is fine), and look up the particular metal, note its
properties (what it dissolves in, its color, smell, toxicity, dangerous
compounds to avoid that it may form, etc.), and then scan all the compounds
before and after it to get an idea of what may or may not be formed. This often
clarifies an old Alchemical recipe, and I have often come up with better, higher
yield methods, easier purification, etc. by consulting this one book. Another
good reference is the Handbook Of Chemistry And Physics (CRC-Chemical
Rubber Company; again a used one is fine. Any used book store always has copies
of the above mentioned two books). This one is easier to scan for similar and
nearby compounds rapidly. The Merck Index also has tables of what to do
in case of accidental poisoning, symptoms, numbers to call, antidotes, and other
useful info. As Frater Albertus always taught us, learn the Theory first before
commencing the Practice.
RG: I know how busy you are these days, Curt, so - on behalf of our readers and
myself - I thank you for spending some time with us today. We’ll look forward
to seeing you in July, at the Seminar in Colorado.